Street Fighter 4!

Gief should be higher, he's pretty dominant against non-shotos.

Shotos aren't even the problem for him. It's that he only outright beats a few of the top and upper mid characters...Sim, Rufus, Gouken, Bison, and that's about it. Gief vs. Sagat and Seth are two of the most lopsided matchups in the whole game. And from what I hear, the Japanese now think Boxer beats him and Viper goes even.

Really, I wouldn't trust a lot of the matchup charts out there in general. Viper is widely considered top-tier now, but you wouldn't know from looking at eventhubs. The console chart is especially problematic because:

1. Japan doesn't play console seriously. This is also why gootecks and his fans are full of shit when they say Seth and Gouken are banned there...they don't run console tournaments in the first place, so it's not like this issue would ever come up.

2. It's taken from a wiki.

Anyway, Sim is sort of the opposite in this regard. He doesn't look as good in a matchup chart, but he beats Sagat and Seth and has no extremely bad matches. And one of the matches he does lose is to a character almost nobody plays...Fuerte. You have a better chance of winning a tournament with Sim alone than with Gief alone, basically.

And speaking of Fuerte, I have him in mid here because he beats Sim and Seth and also has no major counter characters.

In short, all matchups are not equal, and that's what I'm trying to reflect here. Beating Sagat 5.5/4.5 is more important in a tournament than beating Abel 8/2.
 
Shotos aren't even the problem for him. It's that he only outright beats a few of the top and upper mid characters...Sim, Rufus, Gouken, Bison, and that's about it. Gief vs. Sagat and Seth are two of the most lopsided matchups in the whole game. And from what I hear, the Japanese now think Boxer beats him and Viper goes even.
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this is the 1st SF that i've played since '95 so i am not very good but i main geif and the sagat is MEGA tough. tiger shot is too fast
 
are there any other fight pads out there other than the MadCatz one?

i heard it doesnt' work most of the time...

i need reviews from you guys on the fight pad... thanks
 
lol...main geif...lol...

but rash.. TECHNICALLY seth is even a shoto though.... so it IS shotos that beat on geif.
but yea... look at viper.. part of the reason she's moved up so much is because of her match-up with sagat. The tiers are based in part on WHO the match-up is against. Completely agree with ya.

BUT... you should mention it as a "tourney list" so ppl understand it better from your point of view....

but even then I don't agree with fuerte. If it IS a tourny list... nobody uses him.. so he gets to stay in his "piece of gimmicky trash" tier. Sim goes down a tier... I don't care that he won one tourney a while ago and that he does well against sagat. He doesn't deserve a top tier "position." I'm iffy if gouken should drop a tier..if so he'd be the best in that other tier though. ken should move up a tier. abel is NOT that low.... but the top 12 (really fewer though....) are the only ones that matter anyway though for tier list.. That and make sure to throw dan in "super loser" spot lol.
 
Shotos aren't even the problem for him. It's that he only outright beats a few of the top and upper mid characters...Sim, Rufus, Gouken, Bison, and that's about it. Gief vs. Sagat and Seth are two of the most lopsided matchups in the whole game. And from what I hear, the Japanese now think Boxer beats him and Viper goes even.

The Gief vs Viper match is even 5/5 , then it becomes a painful 7/3 Gief match. Hence, why Viper's role in that match is to not let Gief in and stay the fuck away.

All in all, I honestly don't know what tier list to pay attention to. All I know is, I really don't think Viper is top contrary to what Tougeki's Feb tier list suggested. Yes she does well against Sagat (by well I mean it's an even match up) but Dictator, Honda, and Gief can rape her bad. Blanka was believed to be a bad matchup for her as well (though I don't really agree considering she can punish all of Blanka's shit).

Arcadia's June issue listed her B tier (from a list which ranged from S ~ E tier), which I think is more sensible.
 
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